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> Any Ms-access 64bit Users Willing To Test A Dll, Access 2007    
 
   
bowlesj
post Sep 14 2017, 05:51 PM
Post#21



Posts: 237
Joined: 20-May 08



Thanks Albert. You really know your stuff. I read your post top to bottom.

Your compile directives brought back memories of my first learning MS-Access (things I could not see a need for at the time and forgot from lack of use). I was trying to figure out how to do what you did but having forgotten that stuff I could not figure it out so I made due with the knowledge I had.

The Hyper-V also brought back memories of when I was learning to program my first website two years ago in PHP, mysql and javascript. Hyper-V was recommended and I was going to get to it but didn't have the time then the website did not take off and I had no use for it after that.

Some traders use separate dedicated machines because they are afraid that running other software could cause their system to go down during trading. Some of them have their machines running non stop (literally) (or at least they turn it off once a week to clean memory only since windows gets dirty as they say). Some of them have as many as 8 monitors running off one machine using special video interfaces for this. Some have 8 monitors but split across two machines with different brokerage accounts. I was thinking of having two machines so the trading machine would be alone but your hyper-v idea is something I have decided to put on my todo list. I have 16 gig of ram so it might just work. If it works as long as the whole machine does not lock up it would be a good idea. Even if I have to get a machine that has four memory slots with potential to 64 gig of ram the idea of having the trading in one virtual machine and the regular use in another virtual machine really appeals to me. If speed became an issue the worst that could happen is I split the machines as originally planned.

Thanks again,
John
This post has been edited by bowlesj: Sep 14 2017, 06:00 PM
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AlbertKallal
post Sep 14 2017, 06:18 PM
Post#22


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You are most welcome.

Keep in mind that 16 gigs of ram will allow you to easy run 2-4 additional operating systems on the one computer with bullet proof reliability. I mean, this is especially with an i5 or anything more.

The key takeaway in my post is:

You can delete half the code you have. Your buttons don’t need if/then code to choose what routines to call. You wind up with only one set of routines, not separate x32 and x64 subs.

You don’t have to place the dll’s in a special location – just toss them in the same folder/location as the Access accDB program.

Also take VERY close note of the Hyper-V screen shot (hopefully they are showing). That session shows a windows 10 home OS running – and note the ram requirements. I have allocated 4 gigs of ram for that VM, but note how it only using about 1 gig of ram (this is because Hyper-V will dynamic allocate ram from the main computer memory as required). Thus, 16 gigs of ram is more than sufficient to run 2-3 additional VM’s on the one box with 16 gigs of ram. I mean 2 additional computers could each be given 4 gigs of ram. That leaves your main box os with 8 gigs of ram.

And if each session computer does not load a lot of software, then each session will use less than the 4 gigs allocated. I mean, you could bump to 24 or 32 which would be over kill for just 1-2 additional computers.

Hyper-V is hardware based – so each VM does not suffer any CPU loss. "some" disk penality does exist. So in heavy setups, a second SSD drive for the VM's results in screaming performance.

Regards, and good luck!


Albert D. Kallal (Access MVP, 2003-2017)
Edmonton, Alberta Canada
kallal@msn.com

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bowlesj
post Sep 14 2017, 06:32 PM
Post#23



Posts: 237
Joined: 20-May 08



Thanks Albert.

I do have an I5 machine (quad core) and I have a solid state drive with a very fast gaming machine type of graphics card. You have me sold on hyper-v now :-) I just created the following to-do entry shown in quotes.

QUOTE
Check out hyper-v for running MultiCharts 64bit with MS-Access 64 bit on a virtual machine (refer back to Albert's posts). It will save having to swivel between machines, save power, make good use of memory, save money, etc.
http://www.UtterAccess.com/forum/index.php...view=getnewpost


By the way. We are both from Canada :-)

John


This post has been edited by bowlesj: Sep 14 2017, 06:34 PM
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GlenKruger
post Sep 15 2017, 01:03 AM
Post#24


Utterly Crispy UA Forum Administrator
Posts: 8,762
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From: Edmonton,Alberta,Canada


Thanks Albert for jumping in as I still am not up to doing much after the quadruple bypass I had in June.
I agree fully with your thoughts of what the code should be changed to and your idea of using a Virtual drive.

--------------------
Human nature, it is a funny thing and the hardest thing to program to prevent.
Glen Kruger KNKConsulting
MS Access MVP 2013-2017| Wrox Techincal Contributor
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bowlesj
post Sep 15 2017, 04:21 AM
Post#25



Posts: 237
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Sorry to hear about your not being well Glen. I hope you have a speedy recovery.

I have a question for you Albert. I am just curious how this would work on your virtual machine. I mentioned in post #3 of this thread that my machine would lock up if I tried to get the boolean global variable without having first put the boolean global variable. It did it three times in a row and every time it locked my machine up such that I could not use the windows task manager to close down MS-access nor anything else. So I was forced to press and hold the computer's start button to shut the machine down. Luckily it did not trigger a disk check any of the three times. I am wondering if there is an equivalent to pressing the boxes start button within the virtual machine software and if you have ever had a need to use it (maybe what I describe could be used to test it). If tested how does the other virtual machine hold up (can you work on virtual machine #1 while virtual machine #2 shuts down and restarts as part of fixing the problem)?
This post has been edited by bowlesj: Sep 15 2017, 04:28 AM
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AlbertKallal
post Sep 15 2017, 12:26 PM
Post#26


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From: Edmonton, Alberta Canada


You can re-boot the VM's as you please - they don't effect the main host computer.

So you can power-off, or hit the re-set button on a VM. It will re-start, re-boot, but your “host” system of course does not need nor will re-boot. And you can also hit the “shut down” button (which on most computers will do a power down, but may sleep depending your settings). So if a proper shut down can’t occur, then you can hit power-off (that pulls the plug), or even hit the re-set button (and the computer will go through a standard re-set – you even see the standard computer bios start up in some cases).

In fact for testing “dangerous” code, or software that locks up a computer, then do that testing “inside” of a VM session. Calling windows API’s or external dll’s is often dangerous and prone to locking up your computer. That’s why “caution” is required when using windows API’s – one wrong memory pointer and you can blow out (freeze) up your whole computer. So use a VM for such testing – that way your main (called the host computer) can continue to run all day without ever being effected or having to re-boot.

Same goes for testing of software that you download. A VM is ideal. You can spool up a VM, and then on purpose load the worst virus software that will absolute trash the computer – destroy everything. If you did a “snapshot” before this. Then you can simply pull the plug, and REVERT the computer back to the exact state BEFORE you installed anything. The virus software will NEVER have existed on that computer.

I mean, during a day when I test my Access installer scripts, then you need a 100% fresh clean virgin computer. The INSTANT you install or “test” your install, then that computer is now significantly so changed that ANY further test is really moot and not a real test. I mean, installing the Access runtime creates what, 2000 registry entries alone!). Simply un-installing that software is NOT even close since it will STILL leave so much junk and changes behind to that computer it not even funny. And this means ANY further test you run is not really a valid test anymore of how your software will install and behave on a new customer’s machine. So you roll back changes and you have a fresh clean virgin computer to test with.

So in a typical developer day, I will use 10 or even 20 fresh VM’s when testing my Access installer code (it is about 600 lines of Inno installer scripts).

Like I said, what is water to a camel, word processing to a personal assistant, a tool belt for a carpenter? Well for anyone developing software, that tool of the trade, tool of the day and near must have tool in your box is Virtual Computing.

It’s really impossible to make though a typical developer day without using VM’s during that day – I have no idea how developers exist without using this technology on a daily basis.

How else would I test my installing of Access applications without a clean computer? Testing and running your software on your developer computer for a client is near 100% meaning less. This is because your developer computer has every bell and whistle installed, every cool update. And you like have every ActiveX and anything else that you installed over the last year that your software MIGHT require to run correctly – but will FAIL on your customers computer.

So a developer’s computer is usually so massively configured different then a customer’s “typical;” desktop computer that any “final” test run is really much not a test or reflecting how your software will work in production.

Let’s say tomorrow I need 3 computers. One is a server 2012 running SQL server, and then I need two client windows 7 computers to test the Access application that connects to and uses SQLs server.

Well, you just spool up 3 computers with the required setup and you now testing a “network” of 3 computers – but it all virtual. And that virtual setup can have its own local special network – separate from your main machine (so your networks you create are ALSO virtual!). So now you have two window 7 computers connecting to a server 2012 or maybe you need server 2016?

So testing some software that freezes up your computer? Well then test in a VM. Your main computer can be running outlook, skype or you browsing UtterAccess for documentations, but your VM may well have frozen up 5 times, and you rebooted. But none of that will affect your work flow and doing other things on your main computer.

So just like the movie the matrix, you get to create a virtual world of computers at your beck and call, and at your control. You can start, stop, pause, power off, hit reset button to these virtual computers. The beauty is such machines don’t exist in the real world, but in a virtual world that you control.

To quote that movie:

Welcome to the real world!

So for testing bad code, possible malicious software etc., then a VM is often used exactly for these reasons. (Because of the roll back ability).

And of course on your developer computer, you would NEVER install trial or software that you plan to evaluate. The reason of course is installing any trial or evaluation software is a HUGE deal, and after a year of testing and installing trial software and systems you evaluate, then your precious developer computer would quite much be trashed and so messed up that you want to re-install everything from scratch JUST to get that computer back in proper running order.


So in place of an abused and damaged computer, your developer computer ONLY has software tools that you use. I am sure as a developer and you wanting to learn, that you likely evaluate several software packages and systems per week, but no one in their right mind would install such trial software on their developer computer.

So here is a screen cap of running a vm – note the menu options:




Note the drop down menu for that VM – reset, checkpoint, revert (roll back). And note my main computer behind is on UtterAccess!


Regards,
Albert D. Kallal (Access MVP)
Edmonton, Alberta Canada
kallal@msn.com


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bowlesj
post Sep 15 2017, 07:32 PM
Post#27



Posts: 237
Joined: 20-May 08



Thanks Albert.

I am looking forward to learning this. It reminds me of the days when I ran two or three partitions but obviously it is far superior.

John
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bowlesj
post Sep 16 2017, 06:35 AM
Post#28



Posts: 237
Joined: 20-May 08



Sorry Albert. I have one last question. When installing your operating system on each new virtual machine (and other software for that matter such as MS-Access) how to you get around the number of install restrictions I gather MS puts on?

This is how I currently deal with it on my 3 real machines:
My last purchase of Win7 pro was on CD and I installed it once and since then I have been doing Acronis full images backups (3 of which I had to return from due to some sort of corruption - I don't bother to figure out the corruption - I just do the return and I am fine). I also recently discovered free AOMEI which works well with Win XP, Win7 and Win10 (I once used it to do an image return on my Win10 laptop without issue). So I don't remember if there is a restriction on the number of installs from my Win7 CD. I have no idea if the downloads they like so use these days have restriction. These days one buys a machine and gets the software already on it with No CD supplied so we pretty much have to do an image backup to protect ourselves (what I did with Win10). I had to return once on my XP machine too which I hardly use except for backups because it is so slow (I can't remember if I used Acronis or AOMEI). So I do image backups of the whole hard drive whenever I install or change software in some way and I do data backups very often. My daily backups are typically across machines. The main data I work with gets backed up to the notebook and XP machine. A more thorough backup goes to the Xp machine using Comodo backup (a full and two alternating differentials). I also do an archive zip backup of my MS-Access database changes with almost every single small change. The zips get backed up across machines as well. So far this set of procedures has kept me out of trouble.

Thanks,
John
This post has been edited by bowlesj: Sep 16 2017, 06:59 AM
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AlbertKallal
post Sep 16 2017, 11:11 AM
Post#29


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From: Edmonton, Alberta Canada


A great question.

For some testing I often use the 30 grace period. So you install say windows 10 and not enter the key. Or if the OS asks for a key, then you enter it, but don’t activate.

Same goes for office. For example for this “test” I installed Access 2013 x64 bits into the VM I used for screen shots – but did not activate it.

Of course for some setups, you likely do want to activate things. In this case you kind of need something like a MSDN subscription. A full pop MSDN subscription on a yearly basis is quite expensive. However, you can get BizSpark and a number of programs – all less than $1000 per year.

I am just coming out of a MSDN subscription that ended. So in about a year or two then my extensive library of server 2016, server 2012, Visual studio 2013, and a bunch of win10 images etc. will start to date. At that time I’ll have to weigh my options in terms of what MSDN approach I take to get the next batch and round of software as time marchers on.

MSDN used to have a free “VHD” test drive library. This was “full” of pre-made OS installs, and they all worked for 30 days. So you could grab windows “anything” such as server 2012 and not even have to “install” it, but just download the VHD image. The test drive library seems to have fallen away. (but to be fair, I not looked for some years now – again I am just coming out of the end of a MSDN subscription, so I not really had to look for anything as of yet – when I have to cross that bridge I’ll have more experience in that area).

So to be honest, until the rather extensive library of OS’s and images I have now (due to MSDN subscription) runs out, I can’t say I really know what choice I will make. I figure about 1 or 2 years, and then I’ll have to bite some kind of bullet in terms of some type os MSDN subscription.

So most “OS” do have some kind of grace period. And depending on “how” you copy the VHD, you can often make multiple copies of an active OS.

Regards,
Albert D. Kallal (Access MVP)
Edmonton, Alberta Canada
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bowlesj
post Sep 16 2017, 02:19 PM
Post#30



Posts: 237
Joined: 20-May 08



Thanks Abert.

So in my case (since I am actually just an end user) I am currently assuming I would buy MS-Windows 10 for example on disk or download, install it on a virtual machine (VM) I created with Hyper-V on my box, place the acronis CD in my DVD drive, do ctrl+alt+del in the hyper-v menu you showed, it would reboot the virtual machine and detect the acronis CD, I would use acronis to do an image backup of the new VM to my external Terra-Byte USB drive. Then for any new VMs I might create (or if a VM got corrupt) I would follow the same ctrl+alt+del procedure to run acronis and return the image to that new (or corrupt) VM rather than (format the VM C:\ drive and install the Win 10 operating system again). I would do this mainly to preserve any additional installs that are allowed for the Win 10 purchase. I might decide to make an image of the VM after I had additionally installed MS-Access 64 bit or Office 64 bit and follow the same procedure for returning the image if a corruption occurred.

I just googled "install hyper v on windows 10". It implies I have it with Win10 but I checked and it is not there. So once I am ready to dig in deeper with this I will continue the google reading rather than take up any more of your time Albert.

Regards,
John
This post has been edited by bowlesj: Sep 16 2017, 03:10 PM
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AlbertKallal
post Sep 16 2017, 04:09 PM
Post#31


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From: Edmonton, Alberta Canada


You have quite much the right idea.

However, a few things have changed over the years.

For testing, and even some production systems, Hyper-V uses a “single” file for the hard drive. You don’t need a partition at all. So you kind of like “always” working with a single file for the computer (almost like an Acronis image).

Since all of the Hyper-V machines I use have a virtual hard disk, that disk appears as a “single” file on the hard disk. (A VHD file). So you don’t need or have to use any image software like Acronis (I used Acronis for years – love the product).

Next up:
Most software images you get and download are “iso”. Hyper-V includes the ability to directly mount ISO images. (So to install software, you rare have physical DVD/CD these days). So it been “many” years since I had to mess with actually bootable DVD/CD. Media.

However, you most certainly can mount the computers physical DVD drive to a given VM, and then whack re-set and the vm will boot and install from actual physical media.

However, since each VM hard drive is “just” a single file on disk, then there really not need for acronis or other imaging software. (such image software is of course still most useful in backing up and maintains your “main” host computer, but for each additional OS + VM, then you dealing with single files for the hard disk anyway. Thus no worry, bother occurs in regards to image software.

For the most part, you thus RARE even have to create partitions – they are all just files.

In fact a good number of my VM’s are on an external USB powered hard drive. The reason for this is then you “split” the hard drive load. The VM’s run off of the external USB powered (a portable USB powered 500 Meg drive I use). This means I can take the VM’s with me and run them on my laptop, or even on a desktop computer. So I not only get portable VM’s that I take with me for use on different computers (at least ones with Hyper-V which is part of windows 10 for free), but it ALSO off loads the disk drive activity for the VM’s to that external drive. The result is my main computer hardly every notices increased disk drive loads when running VM’s this way.

So the VM’s don’t run in separate partitions – the VM hard drives are simply single files on the hard drive. Note that Hyper-V DOES support actual physical partitions. And it supports actual physical drives but there are few if any advantages to that choice.

And as noted, most software is an iso file, and windows 10 can mount such films as “media” without additional software. And Hyper-V is the same – you can mount any iso image as a drive.

So as a general rule, you not deal with partitions, not deal with physical media, and you not deal with imaging software when using Hyper-V and multiple VM’s as a general course of action.

Regards,
Albert D. Kallal (Access MVP, 2003-2017)
Edmonton, Alberta Canada
kallal@msn.com

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bowlesj
post Sep 16 2017, 06:36 PM
Post#32



Posts: 237
Joined: 20-May 08



Thanks Albert.

So it sounds like all I have to do is these seven things.
1/ Install Hyper-v on my main 16 gig Win-7 machine as described in this web page.
2/ Learn a bit more about Hyper-v via google research then create a virtual machine on my main 16 gig Win-7 machine.
3/ Install Win-7 pro on the virtual drive that Hyper-c creates using my original Win-7 pro dvd I bought about 4 years go.
4/ Buy and install MS-Access 64 bit on the new virtual machine's virtual drive that Hyper-v will create (while on the regular machine I will still run MS-Access 32 bit with my Office 32 bit).
5/ Install my Multicharts 64 on the virtual machine's virtual drive as well.
6/ I will then have to transfer the data for these two 64 bit programs over to the virtual machine's virtual drive (this includes the 64 bit Global Variables DLL).
7/ Lastly under Hyper-v virtual machine control the 64 bit MultiCharts and the 64 bit MS-Access now can talk to each other via the Global Variables thus satisfying the purpose of this thread (64 bit MS-Excel could be used too).
At this point I should be able to run the hyper-v virtual machine during the day to trade the markets while doing general office work with Office 32 bit on the main machine as normal (flipping back and forth quickly).

By the way here is one final thing I can contribute to this thread. You can create more than 3,000 names global variables of each type (boolean, integer, float, double and string) by copying the dll and creating special calls and wrapper functions pointing at each new dll you create. I did the test with the 32 bit dll and it works.

Regards,
John
This post has been edited by bowlesj: Sep 16 2017, 07:29 PM
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AlbertKallal
post Sep 16 2017, 07:32 PM
Post#33


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From: Edmonton, Alberta Canada


Sounds about right. I was not aware that Hyper-V was available for windows 7. I mean, in theory, Hyper-V once installed should allow any OS. But the additional “management” tools are of course key in ease of use etc. You of course will have to install an OS to each additional VM you create.

When I was using windows 7, my VM system of choice was Oracle/Sun Virtual box (it is also free). Virtual Box was nice in and some ways better for testing things. The drawback of V-box was this VM system ran on TOP of the host OS system (so if the host is running bad, or crashes, so do the VM).

I did not adopt Hyper-V for personal use until windows 10 came along.

However, it seems well that Hyper-V and the tools can rather easy be used on windows 7. (You need more then home edition I think)

In the case of Hyper-V, “everything” including your normal windows host boot runs on top of Hyper-V.

In theory, you main OS could freeze and the other Hyper-V sessions could/should continue to run (not the case with Virtual box). I mainly switched over from Virtual Box to Hyper-V for several reasons, but the most compelling for me was two reasons:

#1
Dynamic memory allocation. You can assign say 4 gigs to one VM, but also enable dynamic memory. When you use this feature, then the OS ONLY consumes the memory it needs, not what you allocated. For example, on one server I am running a VM that has Server 2016 and IIS (internet services). That WHOLE server 2016 and it servicing and running TWO web sites on a typical day only consumes about 960 Megs (about 1 gig) of ram. So we using a VM to support and run some web sites for customers. So while I allocated 4 gigs, it only needs and consumes 1 gig. This obviously frees up tons of memory to allow other VM’s to run on that server. This “amazing” frugal and great use of memory had me from day 1. I mean really, 1 gig of ram to run server 2016 and ALSO IIS (internet web services) for two customers only takes 1 gig of ram? Really??? – That is amazing!

#2
The industrial strength Hyper-V used for servers is the EXACTLY the same system you get to run on windows 7 or 10. Thus I could “expand” my skill set and become familiar with Hyper-V on my laptop. Next thing you know, I setting up some VM’s on a server for a client. So the “learning” experience and knowledge gained here can be used beyond your laptop, and is the same system used on servers. So KEY concept here is the skill set is “transferable” to server systems. It not that I am learning “some” VM system, but that I get to learn + use the same one used on Microsoft servers and that is a valuable skill set.

So with windows 10 (pro or higher), Hyper V is included/installed, and the steps to “enable” Hyper-V are the same as outlined in your link (you simply “enable” the windows feature).

Regards,
Albert D. Kallal (Access MVP 2003-2017)
Edmonton, Alberta Canada
kallal@msn.com


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bowlesj
post Sep 17 2017, 05:24 AM
Post#34



Posts: 237
Joined: 20-May 08



Thank you albert. Your posts are very helpful for me and I am sure for others who will be interested in virtual machines (many of which who will likely become interested after reading this thread as I have).

The fact that Hyper-v runs first then both windows-7 operating systems run on top is critical for me so you answered a key question there. You also answered a key question which I was going to bring up and there is one other question that occurred to me.

Question #1:
Do I have disk space for the added install of Win-7 and MS-Access (MultiCharts can be taken off the main machine to free up disk space). I will be using something called "GetFolderSize" to determine if I have disk space or not (great program in that it shows the installed size of all the folders). As a quick glance of space I have (94.5 gig of C: used) and (24.5 gig of C: free). This is a solid state drive. However I have a 1-terabyte drive which is not solid state. It has 102 GB used and 828 GB free. I don't think the softwares will let me install on the terabyte drive but I could be wrong. The problem is MultiCharts keeps gathering more and more data so traders can backtest their trading systems so if you are tracking 100 stocks it can have a huge database eventually.

Question #2:
I might need to hear and see MS-Access 64 bit popups on one virtual machine while working with the other main virtual machine's MS-Access 32 bit during the day. MS-Access copies the popup text into the clipboard and a Text-To-Speech reader voices it for me to hear. It depends on whether I can program my MultiCharts to trade fully automatic (trade by itself all day) or if in the end I decide I can not trust it and I need notification of all potential trading opportunities it finds.

If the answer to both of these is good I am definitely going the hyper-v route as a way to save money and desk space. If I can't see/hear the MS-Access 64 bit popups on VM #2 while working with the MS-Access 32 bit on VM #1 then I will only use Hyper-v if I have a fully automatic trading system. I am a retired programmer. I started programing professionally at age 27 but before that I was a guitar instructor (music is a tough business so I left). I have learned 17 programming languages over the years. Programming a fully automatic multi wave reading market trading system in MultiCharts powerlanguage is one of my more complex challenges I have taken on and I have very strong desire to make it work. If it is fully automatic I get to play guitar a lot more and run my jazz jamming group :-)

Regards,
John
This post has been edited by bowlesj: Sep 17 2017, 05:49 AM
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AlbertKallal
post Sep 17 2017, 02:44 PM
Post#35


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Posts: 2,516
Joined: 12-April 07
From: Edmonton, Alberta Canada


As noted, the VM’s run quite well even off a external USB drive plugged in.

And yes, sound from a VM will make its way out to the host speakers.

All of the “VM” drives I use are those “single” file type. So you can place the VM “file” anywhere you please – including on a say a external USB drive as I often do.

These “drives” always appear to the guest OS/VM as a fixed 127 gig drive (or to whatever max size you set when you create this “magic” non existing hard drive).

So such “VM drive” files are a single dynamic expanding on the host system. Thus they ONLY use the actual disk space they use.

For example, the win10Home VM I used during this thread reports this:



So it says and reports that I have a 127 gig hard drive, but the actual file on disk shows this:




And the actual physical drive on the host shows this:




So from a guest OS hardware point of view, the hard drive looks like 127 gig, hardware and API calls to the OS to report how large the drive will also report a 127 gig drive.

However such VHD drives ONLY use the actual space on the host machines hard drive.

Note that you “can” create fixed sized disk drives. There are cases when installing say DOS or some types of “legacy” systems, some versions of Linux etc., they need to view + use the whole disk drive and not just “auto expand when writing files). So Hyper-V has an option to create actual fixed sized hard drives (but still in a single file on the host OS). For these types of virtual hard drives, they don’t expand or contract but remain the size at creating time.

Certainly 24 gigs is “low” now. While VM’s are great in terms of respecting hard drive space and only use what they need, you still talking about 10-12 gigs for an OS install these days. So just playing with 2 or 3 VM’s likely to exceed what you have free.

As noted, you can place those VM drives on external USB drives (or a extra drive you place in the computer). They even work quite well with USB 2, since as I noted it off loads disk IO from the host computer. If you have a USB 3 external drive then you never even notice the difference in performance.

So while I just stated how great and how each VM’s will ONLY use the disk space it requires in place of a “whole” allocated fixed disk? Well the very “idea” of adopting VM’s certainly means that you going to be chewing up signification amounts of disk space -- more so then just about any other software you would install on your computer (except maybe video editing???).

I find for a typical computer today that 500 gigs on a development computer is about the min. I been meaning to put a SDD in my laptop – and due to how SSD’s work, given the above screen shot then a 750 gig SSD is about the min I would go with. (Due to how re-writes works on SSD’s to preserve the longevity of SSD drives).

And installing software to your large terabyte drive? Sure, the software will not even know or care. You installing your software into a “virtual” machine – the location of the actual VHD is unknown and the guest OS is NOT aware that the OS is running off of a single file. I would most certainly adopt the “large” drive to house and host the VM’s – then when you move to another computer, you just “keep” that drive with the VM’s. So VM’s are rather portable in terms of being moving to your next great computer – especially if everything is on some external or separate drive – you can move that drive and not have to re-install anything except setup Hyper-V to consume those VM’s on that drive. Some companies even run VM’s off of their network storage devices. They during a day spool up and create new server systems on the fly as required.

Regards,
Albert D. Kallal (Access MVP, 2003-2017)
Edmonton, Alberta Canada
kallal@msn.com
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bowlesj
post Sep 17 2017, 03:26 PM
Post#36



Posts: 237
Joined: 20-May 08



Thanks so much Albert. I really appreciate your help with this. With your specific answers to these questions (and also due to an improved approach in my project strategy) I have decided to go ahead with using MS-Access 64 bit immediately and to venture into the new world of Hyper-V rather than getting a second machine. I think I have taken up enough of your time so I will do my very best to resolve any issues during this learning curve with Google research. I will let you know when I have it up and running and when I can celebrate cheers.gif

Thanks again,
John Bowles
This post has been edited by bowlesj: Sep 17 2017, 03:29 PM
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bowlesj
post Sep 18 2017, 05:12 AM
Post#37



Posts: 237
Joined: 20-May 08



It turns out (according to this link) that I need to be running Win 10 professional before I can run Hyper-v. Here is an extract from that link.
QUOTE
This feature isn’t available on Windows 7, and it requires the Professional or Enterprise editions of Windows 8, 8.1, or 10 It also requires a CPU with hardware virtualization support like Intel VT or AMD-V, features found in most modern CPUs.

So after a good nights sleep I have decided to finish all my Multicharts and MS-Access programming on 32 bit until I am fully happy with it then make the move to 64 bit. In other words I want to make absolutely sure the potential revenue is there before making the additional investment. This initial development and testing on 32 bit will be accomplished by loading only a minimum number of stock symbols into the Multicharts scanner (as low as 10 if needed). Once everything is good and I am on 64 bit I can take that up to 100 or more stocks if I wish since the 64 bit version of MultiCharts can make use of all the memory the machine has available. This transition could be a few months from now. Thanks to Glen and Albert's help I will know exactly what to do at that time.
This post has been edited by bowlesj: Sep 18 2017, 05:13 AM
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AlbertKallal
post Sep 18 2017, 04:02 PM
Post#38


UtterAccess VIP
Posts: 2,516
Joined: 12-April 07
From: Edmonton, Alberta Canada


As noted, I was surprised if Hyper-V was available in windows 7 (else I would have been using it!!!). As I noted, the #1 reason that “jumped” to windows 10 was Hyper-V was now included for free. And it is the “same” industrial strength system they run on their servers (and even some server farms – so REALLY great terms of memory for server systems).

So you can “well” note the surprise of windows 7 in my above posts. (Guess I was right about Hyper-V and windows 7).

I not 100% sure, but a upgrade from windows 7 to windows 10 may well be a low cost means to get win 10 for very low cost.

I should point out that I specific purchased my laptop with windows 10. However the laptop was SUCH a good deal, I brought it despite ONLY having windows 10 home edition (a Christmas sale at a big box retailer).

However, windows 10 allows upgrades without re-installs. So windows 10 can be “upgraded” without a re-install by simply entering a NEW key. I did NOT want to go through all the trouble to re-install everything (especially with laptops in regards to power manager, drivers and special keys on the keyboard).

So windows 10 has a “in place” upgrade system, and a simple enter of a win 10 pro key jumped the laptop from win 10 home to windows professional edition – all in a matter of minutes and all without having to re-install windows 10. And I specific did that upgrade to Pro for use of Hyper-V.

Good luck – at least now you have a good “taste” of the wonders of Virtual computing. If in the meantime you want to play with Virtual technology, then Oracles Virtual box is a great choice, and it will run on your machine now. As I noted, the ONLY real reason to go with Hyper-V is learning a Microsoft “server” system. Another popular VM vendor is VM ware, and I not up to date if they have any free offerings.

So you don’t necessary have to wait to adopt virtual technology and you don’t necessary have to adopt Hyper-V. Virtual box is a great choice (I feel it better more for “testing” then running production systems (but it still more then fine for your purposes).
Check it out here:


https://www.virtualbox.org/

Regards,
Albert D. Kallal (Access MVP)
Edmonton, Alberta Canada
kallal@msn.com
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bowlesj
post Sep 18 2017, 05:04 PM
Post#39



Posts: 237
Joined: 20-May 08



Thanks Albert.

Out of curiosity I just checked my prior PHP forum posts and virtualbox was in fact the one they were recommending rather than hyper-v. Being a unix based website I am not surprised they were recommending virtualbox. Of course that was for website use which is no where near as intensive as what I am trying to do now.

It would be easier for me too since if I understand your prior mention of virtualbox I can install virtualbox without messing with my current setup of Win-7 then install (the second win-7 pro from my DVD, Multicharts 64 bit and MS-Access 64 bit) on the VirtualBox virtual disk. I would think it is best to install this on the C:\ SSD for speed purposes.

I am pretty sure I can put the MultiCharts stock datafile on that terabyte drive even though the (2nd win-7 pro, Multicharts 64 bit and MS-Access 64 bit) set of software are on the C:\ SSD. This would be very fast since the data that MultiCharts gathers for the day is not written out until the end of the day anyway (they do this to obtain maximum speed).

The scripts that Multicharts executes as far as I know are also stored in RAM for maximum processing speed. This could also be very sizable since the script is repeated on every chart for every stock. So you can imagine it processing a fairly large 1,000 line script for 100 stocks every second for every chart. So 6 charts times 100 stocks times 1,000 lines of code = 600,000 lines of script code every second is what it could well be trying to do and to do that it needs to all be in RAM. The script forces an execution every second making it even more important that it stay in ram. So this code and the stock data is all in RAM all day (not surprising I was running out of memory with the 32 bit system).

John
This post has been edited by bowlesj: Sep 18 2017, 05:05 PM
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