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> Field Names And Special Characters, 2013 and O365    
 
   
tigerfly
post May 3 2015, 02:29 AM
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preparing to upload about 200 BE tables to O365, in what will ultimately be a hybrid configuration of BE in cloud, FE on desktop. Am taking the path suggested by many: delete spaces and hyphens from table names (also deleting them from form names and query names). Do I need to follow this same path with respect to field names in the tables? (I hope not).
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Jeff B.
post May 3 2015, 07:50 AM
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Access is literal ... so is the following one field or two? First Name
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Jeff B.
post May 3 2015, 07:52 AM
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note: you can 'disambiguate' by using square brackets ... [First Name] ... but if you don't, or don't remember to do so EVERY TIME, spaces in your field names will come back to bite you ...
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GroverParkGeorge
post May 3 2015, 10:46 AM
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And it's not just spaces in field names. If you have field names like "Paid?", or "Shipment#", where there is a special character in the name, they need to be corrected as well.
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tina t
post May 3 2015, 01:24 PM
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simple rule of thumb: don't use spaces or special characters in the name of anything that you name in an Access database - including the name of the database file itself. (i'd also recommend no numeric characters, except maybe at the end of a name.)

hth
tina
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MadPiet
post May 3 2015, 04:03 PM
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Before anyone spends a lot of time reinventing the wheel, grab this code from Allen Browne and see what it reports:
http://www.allenbrowne.com/AppIssueChecker.html
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tigerfly
post May 4 2015, 12:13 AM
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Dear All,

but the fact remains that the db has worked perfectly well for a long time now with spaces and hyphens in field names. It is only fear of the cloud that makes me tremble about them now.

what is it with this O365 cloud? Has it gone back to programming that was current in 1995? -- instead of being a modern application. Jeez.

ps. many thanks for the link to Browne's utility, which I will download and use right after I type this final -- . and click on "submit now"
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jleach
post May 4 2015, 07:35 AM
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>> what is it with this O365 cloud? Has it gone back to programming that was current in 1995? -- instead of being a modern application. Jeez. <<

How many other database engines or programming languages have you seen in the past 30 years that allow for special characters and spaces in names? Not many, I'd bet... modern or not. It's a foundational industry standard best practice that continues to be followed by any halfway serious developer, to this day. Just because a platform allows something to be done, doesn't mean you *should*, and this portability issue is (yet one more) reason why you shouldn't.

Cheers,
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AlanAnderson
post May 4 2015, 08:09 AM
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Hi All,

I followed Piet's suggestion
QUOTE
Before anyone spends a lot of time reinventing the wheel, grab this code from Allen Browne and see what it reports:
http://www.allenbrowne.com/AppIssueChecker.html


Excellent utility - just two questions please - What is the issue regarding 1. Decimals and 2. SubDataSheets

Regards

Alan
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jleach
post May 4 2015, 08:27 AM
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Not sure specifically about decimals, but they're a bit of a black sheep datatype in Access. While they work fine on the JET/ACE end of things (to the best of my knowledge anyway), they are essentially variants in VBA, which brings with it their own set of subtleties that aren't typically present in "true" native data types. With that said, I've never had much issue using them myself, but my guess is that it's included in this context because of that (for the record, I rarely ever actually needed a decimal type... 99% of the time I can cover it with some other type).

For Subdatasheets, they slow down performance considerably and make some assumptions about your data - namely, for each table, it assumes some specific relation if there's more than one to choose from. For example, TableA may have child TableB and, (unrelated to B) child TableC. The subdatasheet feature can only handle one child table, and we have no control over which child table it decides is the one it will use, thus introducing possibilities for unexpected results. Allen has also on his site some utility code to turn them all off in the BE. Google Allen Browne Subdatasheet Off or Allen Browne FixZLS (both utilities are on the same page).
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GroverParkGeorge
post May 4 2015, 08:55 AM
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Jack has already addressed the issue well, but I want to add my two cents here.

Access also supports features like lookup fields in tables, the ability to add fields to tables on the fly, and the ability to throw Aggregate fields into tables, features which are not supported by most other RDBMSs, "modern" or not. The reason Access allows some features is that, for better or worse, Microsoft expects the tool to be used by people of all levels of ability and experience. Many of those people come from an Excel background, or no database background at all. While it seems problematic that they have introduced such things into the product, one has to keep in mind that many--perhaps the majority--of new Access users simply don't have the background to understand how different such features are from mainstream RDMSs. Again, it's a cliché, but true like most clichés, just because you can do something doesn't mean you should do it.
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jleach
post May 4 2015, 09:23 AM
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Re: Decimal

>> While they work fine on the JET/ACE end of things (to the best of my knowledge anyway) <<

Timely enough, I was just putting together some of my own JET DDL reference and just realized that there is no DECIMAL type in JET. So... VBA handles it as a variant, and it apparently gets converted to some other type of actual storage in the db (sounds like a mess to me...)
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AlanAnderson
post May 4 2015, 10:37 AM
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From: Blantyre, Malawi


Hi.

Thanks George and Jack.

According to the dbIssue utility I have scores of subdatasheets in my application.

An example is a look up table I have that consists of an autonumber key, DistrictName, and 2 Foreign key fields.

Not only did I not create a Subdatasheet, I don't even know how to.

Is this something Access does automatically?

Regards

Alan
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GroverParkGeorge
post May 4 2015, 10:41 AM
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Yes, Access does it by default.

Attached File  2015_05_04_8_40_22.png ( 9.66K )Number of downloads: 1
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AlanAnderson
post May 4 2015, 10:46 AM
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From: Blantyre, Malawi


Hi George,

Thank you for that.

The weird thing about Access is that the more you learn, the more you discover you don't know.

QUOTE
Google Allen Browne Subdatasheet Off or Allen Browne FixZLS


I think I will take Jack's suggestion and use this to remove them all.

Thanks for the help. I do appreciate it.

Regards

Alan
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tigerfly
post May 5 2015, 12:28 AM
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was looking forward to using Allen's utility, but when I use it to select a db I get the "Your internet access was interrupted" error message, even though, of course, I'm not accessing the internet in any way.
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AlanAnderson
post May 5 2015, 04:06 AM
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From: Blantyre, Malawi


Hi Tiger,

I had no problem. Did you download it first and then try run it from your PC?

Regards

Alan
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tigerfly
post May 6 2015, 11:46 PM
Post#18



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yes. I'm still totally on the pc. Access 2007 running on Windows 7. I've researched the problem a bit; no satisfactory solution, but some suggest the problem is with W7
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AlanAnderson
post May 7 2015, 05:03 AM
Post#19



Posts: 1,307
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From: Blantyre, Malawi


Hi Tiger,

Then I am stumped. Sorry.

I am running Windows 8.1 and Access 2010 and it works for me.

Possibly try download it again and save it with slightly different name. Then try again.

I think its worth persisting

Regards

Alan
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tigerfly
post May 8 2015, 03:19 AM
Post#20



Posts: 22
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no luck, and I am off to other things, but thanks for the suggestion
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