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> Working Without Access (and Trying To Remedy This), Any Version    
 
   
Sandi V
post Mar 6 2018, 10:08 PM
Post#1



Posts: 333
Joined: 21-July 05
From: Baltimore, MD


Hello, old friends! It has been too long. I've been the grateful recipient of much advice from you guys in the past, but I've been absent for the last year and a half or so. I haven’t had a need for any Access advice, as my new employer will not provide me with a copy of Access. Imagine that for a second.

All data is crammed into various Word and Excel documents – and poorly at that. I’ve inherited bad databases before – this is just, just….ahhh….

I’m so frustrated! The amount of clerical work we have to do every time there is a staffing change is just stupid. They are paying me (and other staff) way too much money for clerical work. I won’t list all the other ways Access would improve the firm’s productivity. I know I’m preaching to the choir.

I’ve pleaded with the IT Director and have given her several examples of what I’ve done in the past. She routinely ignored me. Finally, in my annual performance review, the HR Director told me that while she supported my vision, I won’t get Access because “we still do things the old-fashioned way.” My Access work product is a large part of what got me this job!

The IT Director has Access and uses it. So, it’s not like she’s one of those IT folk who dismiss Access on sight.

All that said, it is a nice job, good people, and I want to make it work. I want to improve processes!

I have come to the point where I’m thinking of building a database with firm-specific data at home on my own time. I’m hoping to show the IT Director a final result that makes sense to her personally and will demonstrate the value of ONE ACCESS LICENSE. But I see where that could open up some issues. Like: if I use staff DOB’s, any kind of personal/protected data that belongs to the firm; could that get me in trouble? Shall I continue to hammer on the issue when she’s ignored me before and had the HR Director tell me NO? I really can’t continue “doing things the old fashioned way”. It’s making me crazy.

I realize this is open-ended, but I value any thoughts or advice you might give. I miss you guys!

--Sandi
This post has been edited by Sandi V: Mar 6 2018, 10:28 PM
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zaxbat
post Mar 6 2018, 10:56 PM
Post#2



Posts: 956
Joined: 26-January 06
From: .....the wiregrass (either you know or you don't)


I can't help but wonder if they have had a bad experience with a corrupted access database somewhere in the past. Anyway, no point in pushing, their position on this seems clear.

--------------------
Kindest regards, and Cheers!
ZAX

A picture is worth a thousand words and a zipped DB is worth a thousand pictures.
Oh, and....please don't disappear into the Twilight Zone.... Holler back with your results!
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DanielPineault
post Mar 6 2018, 11:03 PM
Post#3


UtterAccess VIP
Posts: 5,951
Joined: 30-June 11



I'd ask are you running Office 365, if so, Access is included in all plan, so no license fee there.

Why would HR have any say in you getting Access? Unless you work for HR that is. Otherwise, deal with whomever is your supervisor. In my experience, $$$ talks. You need to be able to show the monetary gains that will occur by moving to Access. You need to quantify hours saved, improved processes, ... $$$.

Everything depends on your company, and who you actually report to. In the past, I took it upon myself to develop tools for myself and once they were in place and others saw what they could do, then all of a sudden they wanted it as well! You do have to be careful of how you go about things as to not step on key player's toes! And every situation is different and only you know yours!!!



--------------------
Daniel Pineault (2010-2017 Microsoft MVP)
Professional Help: http://www.cardaconsultants.com
Free MS Access Code, Tips, Tricks and Samples: http://www.devhut.net

* Design should never say "Look at me". It should always say "Look at this". -- David Craib
* A user interface is like a joke, if you have to explain it, it's not that good! -- Martin LeBlanc


All code samples, demonstration databases, links,... are provided 'AS IS' and are to be used at your own risk! Take the necessary steps to check, validate ...(you are responsible for your choices and actions)
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projecttoday
post Mar 6 2018, 11:12 PM
Post#4


UtterAccess VIP
Posts: 9,707
Joined: 10-February 04
From: South Charleston, WV


At the risk of stating the obvious, you should get another job if you can. I know you like it there, but you have to way the drawbacks against the advantages, the former being considerable.

Otherwise, I advise you to ask first before you even do it at home on your own time.

--------------------
Robert Crouser

My company's website
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Sandi V
post Mar 6 2018, 11:34 PM
Post#5



Posts: 333
Joined: 21-July 05
From: Baltimore, MD


Thank you for your reply. I'm pretty sure there's been no previous misbehaving databases. But your point "their position is clear" is one that weighs on me heavily. I've tried to respect that. But I can't.
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Sandi V
post Mar 6 2018, 11:37 PM
Post#6



Posts: 333
Joined: 21-July 05
From: Baltimore, MD


Yes, Yes, "In the past, I took it upon myself to develop tools for myself and once they were in place and others saw what they could do, then all of a sudden they wanted it as well! " That's what I'm thinking I want to do. But I can't at work, since I don't have my tool. But it is very much what I want to try.
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Sandi V
post Mar 6 2018, 11:43 PM
Post#7



Posts: 333
Joined: 21-July 05
From: Baltimore, MD


And this is the one I expected the most. I suspect I should run. I guess I just wanted one more shot. But minds are made up. It's too bad. For them, and for my resume. I have learned one thing: I need Access. I have another place I can go that wants me for these skills. They can't meet my current salary; but I'm willing to take a cut to work smarter. Sitting here in the "old fashioned way" is gonna kill me.
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Sandi V
post Mar 6 2018, 11:54 PM
Post#8



Posts: 333
Joined: 21-July 05
From: Baltimore, MD


HR doesn't really have a say, except that she was asked to deliver the message to me by the IT Director who would not or could not address my concerns directly.
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DanielPineault
post Mar 7 2018, 06:15 AM
Post#9


UtterAccess VIP
Posts: 5,951
Joined: 30-June 11



QUOTE
HR doesn't really have a say, except that she was asked to deliver the message to me by the IT Director who would not or could not address my concerns directly.


Well, the company is sounding more and more dysfunctional the more you explain.

Perhaps projecttoday's comments should be considered. Can you go along 'as is', if no one is willing to even try to improve things? Then again, it is easy for someone to say quit! Not always easy to find a new job, especially a good one where you'll be happy and be able to actively contribute.



--------------------
Daniel Pineault (2010-2017 Microsoft MVP)
Professional Help: http://www.cardaconsultants.com
Free MS Access Code, Tips, Tricks and Samples: http://www.devhut.net

* Design should never say "Look at me". It should always say "Look at this". -- David Craib
* A user interface is like a joke, if you have to explain it, it's not that good! -- Martin LeBlanc


All code samples, demonstration databases, links,... are provided 'AS IS' and are to be used at your own risk! Take the necessary steps to check, validate ...(you are responsible for your choices and actions)
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zaxbat
post Mar 7 2018, 06:33 AM
Post#10



Posts: 956
Joined: 26-January 06
From: .....the wiregrass (either you know or you don't)


I think it is excellent that you have a fall back job offer even if it is less.....happiness is more important than money (and the two are often mutually exclusive anyway).

There is one other consideration. Can you make yourself indispensable at your current location. If so, you can leverage your request for access if they want you to stay. But if this is a location where nobody is indispensable then I would leave anyway.

--------------------
Kindest regards, and Cheers!
ZAX

A picture is worth a thousand words and a zipped DB is worth a thousand pictures.
Oh, and....please don't disappear into the Twilight Zone.... Holler back with your results!
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nuclear_nick
post Mar 7 2018, 07:16 AM
Post#11



Posts: 1,519
Joined: 5-February 06
From: Ohio, USA


I typed and re-typed a few versions of things to say, none positive, none I really wanted to share with the general public, they were just so... negative. (Not towards you...)

Finally I hit the 'Cancel/Go Back', and moved on to something else.

And that's when an interesting, radical idea hit me.

Excel is a database... of sorts. They call it a 'flat file' style. But you can link sheets, create forms, program VBA... It would be challenging, for sure, but if you can make the job say, 20% easier just with Excel, then say, "I could have done better with Access..." (A little more positively and subtlety. maybe...)

What an interesting challenge... Definitely a more positive way than my earlier thought of telling you that 'it wasn't worth it and you need to run'... especially if you like the place.

Anyways... good luck, in whatever you decide!

--------------------
"Nuclear" Nick
____________
The top three reasons to hide code; 1) It's not your own. 2) It's your own, but it's so crappy you don't want anyone to see it. 3) The comments in your code would get you in a lot of trouble if ever made public.
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GroverParkGeorge
post Mar 7 2018, 09:29 AM
Post#12


UA Admin
Posts: 32,840
Joined: 20-June 02
From: Newcastle, WA


I like Nick's suggestion.

A couple of additional thoughts.

If the totally negative attitude you describe is deeply held, you might never get any traction in implementing a logical solution using MS Access.

On the other hand, perhaps a bit of judicious discovery can help surface some buried motivations that have generated that attitude. Did they try Access at some point, and did that end in a disaster, for example? Perhaps the person who said "no" has a close friend or colleague putting poison in their ears. I once sat in a transition meeting with a client. The CEO of the company had invited his buddy, who otherwise had NOTHING to do with the company, to sit in. This person sat and bad-mouthed Access to the group every chance he got. Before the meeting was half over, it was clear his influence over the CEO was much stronger than our developer team's. And no matter what facts we laid on the table, he was going to make sure the company terminated our contract. Unfair? Literally stupid? Yes and Yes. But reality takes a back seat to prejudice in far too many situations of that sort.

So, if you can identify something that a) is behind this negativity, and b) you can address with factual arguments, perhaps you'll have a chance to achieve something worthwhile. And at the very least, you'll feel better about having to move on should that turn out to be the only remaining option.

And, if that happens, I strongly urge leaving on the best possible terms. Don't return the negativity you've encountered. Leave the door open for follow up conversations should they ever have a change of heart. What you want is to have them remember you as a person of integrity who somehow got away from them. And, if they are nice to you, you might come back and help them implement that Access solution after all.

--------------------
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LPurvis
post Mar 7 2018, 09:36 AM
Post#13


UtterAccess Editor
Posts: 16,271
Joined: 27-June 06
From: England (North East / South Yorks)


Hi

Just adding on here too...

>> will not provide me with a copy of Access.
>> "we still do things the old-fashioned way." My Access work product is a large part of what got me this job!
I also don't quite know where to start either.
So it's not a cost issue, but one of willingness? (They seem to be under the false impression that documents and spreadsheets are an old-fashioned concept but databases not? :-s The RDBMS having been developed in the 1970's. Perhaps that would reassure them. :-p)

>> will demonstrate the value of ONE ACCESS LICENSE
Your one licence at home should be enough of a proof and a Runtime install at work to run it. No cost at all to them.
But of course, it's ludicrous to expect you to spend your home time developing and then running it at work.
And even your own time spent creating a proof of concept is a risky undertaking, if they simply won't look at it, or just reject it out of hand. Unless you want to create such a beast for your own portfolio. (I know I've done work before that got cancelled all too late and so went unpaid. Did NOT like that. Purchase Orders across the board ever since! ;-)

How sure is the backup job position? Strong enough for you to let your current employers know that you're going to jump ship due to their lack of vision (and even false pretences). Might just jolt them into responsiveness?

The best of luck to you.

--------------------
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LPurvis
post Mar 7 2018, 09:39 AM
Post#14


UtterAccess Editor
Posts: 16,271
Joined: 27-June 06
From: England (North East / South Yorks)


Just to agree with George's comment... As satisfying as some home truths can be, in business it's worth playing nice and not burning a bridge.
So honesty is good, but can be tempered.

Cheers

--------------------
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bouncee
post Mar 7 2018, 01:06 PM
Post#15



Posts: 86
Joined: 5-August 05
From: Eastbourne, UK


zaxbat suggests becoming indispensible, however it could be the employer's fear of this that's behind their intransigence, aside from their going with "If it ain't broke, don't fix it".
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Sandi V
post Mar 8 2018, 01:23 AM
Post#16



Posts: 333
Joined: 21-July 05
From: Baltimore, MD


Thanks for you reply, Nuclear Nick. I have done some scrubbing up with Excel and improved some things. But each time I get to any thing that is multi-relational; that's where I just give up and get mad.
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Sandi V
post Mar 8 2018, 01:44 AM
Post#17



Posts: 333
Joined: 21-July 05
From: Baltimore, MD


I think you hit the nail on the head, Bouncee.
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nuclear_nick
post Mar 8 2018, 07:05 AM
Post#18



Posts: 1,519
Joined: 5-February 06
From: Ohio, USA


Didn't think it was going to be easy... you pretty much have to enforce relations through code.

Thinking of it like Access again, for example... would you set up a database that had forms, and allowed your users in the 'back end'? If you follow the advice probably given in the top ten here, no. So... do the same with your 'Excel forms'... Entry and display through forms or creating and filling out worksheets for the end user, but the main data... that would be in a separate workbook, probably even somewhere else.

Like anything... databases, your favorite soufflé... it takes time and planning.

Good luck, and happy coding!

--------------------
"Nuclear" Nick
____________
The top three reasons to hide code; 1) It's not your own. 2) It's your own, but it's so crappy you don't want anyone to see it. 3) The comments in your code would get you in a lot of trouble if ever made public.
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zaxbat
post Mar 8 2018, 07:22 AM
Post#19



Posts: 956
Joined: 26-January 06
From: .....the wiregrass (either you know or you don't)


If the price of access is an obstacle......I got a new version of 2010 for $36 a few weeks ago when I lost mine due to factory refresh. And 2010 does not require an annual renewal fee.

--------------------
Kindest regards, and Cheers!
ZAX

A picture is worth a thousand words and a zipped DB is worth a thousand pictures.
Oh, and....please don't disappear into the Twilight Zone.... Holler back with your results!
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GroverParkGeorge
post Mar 8 2018, 07:39 AM
Post#20


UA Admin
Posts: 32,840
Joined: 20-June 02
From: Newcastle, WA


Unfortunately, Access 2010 is three versions back and soon to go out of support. It might be a bridge to the present, though.

--------------------
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