Hello all you great people here at UA.

I have been sitting here for awhile now thinking about what it would be like to create Access applications all the time and not just when I need something quick. While I am by no means an Expert like the many people on this site, I would like to become one. I would like to get some input from you all as to how you became experts at this and if you do this for a living? What type of training did you take? Do you work from home (independent) or for a boss somewhere? I have been looking at going back to school for computer forensics, but I really have enjoyed doing the one Access project I was doing and thought..hmmm...I wouldn't mind doing this everyday for a living. My wife and kids think it may be a good idea..but wanted to get a feel from people who actually may do this on a daily basis.

Hope that doesn't sound too confusing and that I have posted this in the right forum.


Looking forward to see what you all have to say on this question.


Joe

We all started out just like you. "This Access thingee looks interesting. I wonder..."

I've told the story of my very first Access database a few times before. Let's just say that if I had asked my employer whether, on the strength of that first effort, I should make database design a career, the answer would have been, "You're kidding, right?" The point of that story is that when you have a passion for something, and you decide to pursue it, the skills will come. After a couple more years, I finally felt confident enough to switch careers and move to full-time Access work. I've NEVER regretted that decision. I worked out of my home office for a few years. I've worked for large companies. Now I work for an Access/SQL Server development shop doing consulting for local clients.

The internet has changed things a lot, with regard to getting help/information/training. I have a library of books from Access 97 forward, but these days, I turn first to UA, then to MSDN and Tech-Net, and then to the other Access forums for help. Every once in a while I'll still find useful stuff in one of my books, but the quality and quantity of information available on the interwebs makes that less and less important. A few good books stay at hand, including Database Design for Mere Mortals

If you DO pursue it, you'll be constantly addressing another question, one we ALL have to think about regularly. "Where is database development going next?" Mobile devices are changing the game in unpredictable ways, so keep your eyes open. Look at Access Web Services on SharePoint, as well. There's a huge upside to that, even though it's not quite clear yet, how it will look in a few years time.

That's just my three cents worth in inflationary times.

George

As the previous poster indicated, everything is changing.

My take is that Access will be come less important while web based applications will become the norm. These applications are entirely platform independent and do not require distribution.

There is an increasing demand for those who can write database applications for the Web. This work requires a very broad skill base.

Moreover, Microsoft has already revealed that their sofware development platform from Windows 8 will be based on Javascript and CSS.
I would strongly advise you to become fluent in these languages.

"Moreover, Microsoft has already revealed that their sofware development platform from Windows 8 will be based on Javascript and CSS."

That's an interesting comment, but one that I feel needs to be expanded just a bit. You refer, for example, to "their sofware development platform ". Would you mind elaborating on that point? Are you suggesting that MS sees a single platform for software development starting with Windows 8? Or something similar, but not quite that dramatic? Thanks.


I'm not arguing against the increasing role of web applications, and more importantly, applications running on mobile devices, but as one of my clients told me just a few days ago, "At your age, George, you'll be long retired before the need for Access and SQL Server databases has ended." You see, many smaller and medium-sized organizations didn't get that memo which says they have to abandon the desktop in favor of the cloud. And many of those who HAVE read the memo aren't quite ready to buy in. Maybe next year, or the next, or the next.

I sometimes think it is harder for the youngest among us to grasp the reality that "social media" is NOT the main focus of most successful business, even today. Just because they are using iPhones and iPads, and Androids and even Windows Phones, to keep in touch with their friends on Twitter, doesn't mean that businesses are ready to leap off the reliable Windows platform onto that skinny little 7 inch screen and blow away decades of infrastructure in the process. We'll see how far Windows 8 and tablets go towards making that a little more likely, but I would not bet any large sums of money on my being out of a job building quality databases in the next five to ten years.

Before you get the idea I'm contradicting anything said, I'm not. I've been working with AWS on SharePoint for a while now. I'm looking forward to having enough spare time to dig deeper into the cloudy side of things. I understand the importance of being ready to adapt other ways of working. Access is cool, but so is LightSwitch (although I find it limited compared to Access-- NO native report writing capability? Really?). There are other development tools out there as well. I just want to caution everyone against thinking it's time to bury good old Access. There are some good years left in our old friend still, I think.

If anything, I'd say you should really become as good at basic database design as you can--from the point of view of Relational Table design. Whereever we go next, good table schema are going to be fundamental.

FWIW:

Microsoft To Focus on HTML5 and JavaScript for Office 15 Development

Now, that is just a conjecture but plausible one at least and I would gladly welcome it, personally.

BTW, good to see you here! (Banana)

Jrenter3,

As previously mentioned, you can look to see what else is available within the extensive database arena. "Big Data" is one of the hot topics, and IMHO, I don't see "Big Data" going away or shrinking any time soon. Data warehousing and data mining are a couple of other areas that will likely have long livelihoods.

And keep the business side of things in mind. Many organizations are looking for the technical person who also has an understanding of business operations. I know many people who are able to run circles around me with respect to certain technical aspects. These same people also come to me and ask me what would be the best way to apply or enhance some of the apps they've built - it's a team effort.


HTH,


AvgJoe

Here are some of my random thoughts (sorry if I ramble).

Access is a great tool, and can fill many needs of organizations, but it has a bad rap out there and is frowned on by most IT departments. Many companies would be better off using access for small and medium sized projects, but they have been told (and they believe) that .net is better and it is the future (now they are starting to say that HTML5 and Java are the future). Access can be a great tool for a developer, but it should not be your only tool.

If you are going to be a freelance developer, you must also be a good salesman. You can be a great developer, but if a competitor is a better salesman, you will not be successful. I tend to "under promise and over deliver". This works great once you have a relationship with a customer, but a competitor who "over promises and under delivers" will often the job instead of you.

When I was in accounting, being a good access developer made me look great. I automated many tasks that we were doing by hand, and made us a much more efficient department. I tend to think that being good with access and having skills in another non-IT position can make you a true power user in that other field. I believe that an end user with limited programming skills is more powerful that a great programmer that has no idea what the program needs to do in the end.

Being an access developer is a niche market, and people can be successful doing it, but I think that the successful independent access developer is more of an exception than the norm.

For me, access opened the door to the IT field (I am no longer in accounting). I don’t use access that much anymore, but I work with SQL server a lot, and my access experience helped me a lot in that area. I do a little programming with .net programs, and again, VBA helped me pick up those concepts much faster than if I had started from scratch. I also work quite a bit with SSRS (Sql Server Reporting Services), and even though it is different that access reporting, is has similarities and my access experience helped with those concepts.

Good luck,
Rob

Sorry - system tried to repost.

JOPO - just one person's opinion...

Like other responders, I don't feel I have the same level of technical expertise that many of the folks here have

On the other hand, I've found over the years that I provide a much-needed bridge between the business folks and their need to "just get their jobs done" and the technical folks, who can tell you where the electrons are going ...

If you're going to be developing applications, let's say, using Access, there are at least four learning curves you'll want to climb...

1. Relational database design/normalization -- Access expects data in a particular arrangement (and works best with that)
2. Access tips/tricks -- Access is NOT a "spreadsheet on steroids" ... to use it well, learn how Access does things.
3. Graphical user interface design -- if it isn't easy to use, and doesn't help them get their jobs done, they won't use it!
4. Application development -- ?never build a house before? ?where to start? ?what to do 'next'? ?when to stop?

Good luck!

Thank you to everyone who has responded to this question. I picked up quite a few tips from the posts that are here. In some of the comments, I was aware of some of the items mentioned, such as the Data Norm, and the Tips/Tricks. I have been keeping my eye on databases on the web and will want to see if I can take the project that completed and make it web based, which I know will help the person that I created this first application for. They work in different parts of their state throughout the days and being able to upload their data to the "main" office right away would be a great help instead of keeping it on their laptop from one facility to another for the week until they return home.

I hadn't known about the switch or implementation of HTML 5 through Office in the next version. I will check more and keep and eye on that as time goes on.

I agree that while the need for applications that are more web based or portable, I feel like one comment, there are those that won't be able to afford to jump on the bandwagon right away as it passes through town, nor will they be willing to. This in turn leaves them with other options for the time being, such as staying with what they have or upgrading to a "newer" but not the latest and greatest solution.


Thanks again for the tips and insights, it has been greatly appreciated.


Joe

Versatility is the key. Ability to develop in a variety of environments allows you to support a wide range of needs and intelligently advise on the pros and cons of different solutions.

The skills you need depend on what you are tring to do. Specialising in bespoke database design can sound inviting but you need to be good and fast because budgets can be blown very rapidly. Then you need to be able to get the work. I know guys who work very long hours on computer support and never make what they are worth because they work for low budget clients.

Working for a salary is a pretty good option if you can get it. Maybe you won't make what you might freelance if all goes well but that regualr pay is nice.

Where I work we just have two IT "dogsbodies" who need to support whatever the business needs. We have Unix, Linix, Novell, Windows, VMWare servers. We run databses in Access, SQL Server and Universe. We need to support users in Word and Excel including writing some code for them. We maintain the company's hideously coded website and even make new pages (nicely if there is time) for it occasionally. We write scripts in VB and even in DOS sometimes.

A job like this is a great place to learn a variety of stuff. There isn't the pressure to meet budgets because the only demand is that we keep the system running smoothly. Sure we are on the metal sometimes but other times we have the freedom to persue interests that develop our own skills and ultimately allow us to expand the company's IT functionality.

I also agree that Access isn't going to disappear any time soon. Just look at how Microsoft thought they were going to completely deprecate VB6 so long ago yet it is still with us even though they would like to pretend it isn't. Far too many legacy applications to let it go. Why would anybody want to change an old working app? Just look at the banking industry where the core of the systems is still running on software written by long dead developers. Just try finding someone who can write in Universe TCL fluently.

Moreover the skills one learns with Access and VBA naturally progress through to handling ADO especially once you get into interactions with SQL Server. It isn't a big step then to writing ASP.

Also like any linguist will tell you the first language is the hard one. Once you come to terms with the principles, other languages are just syntactical variants of the same processes. Javascript for all its idiosyncracies is just another variant on the theme. (Though I do sometimes shudder thinking of dealing with its approach to objects and reverse inheritance. I call it Object Orbited rather than Object Oriented.)

With Microsoft's proposed change of emphasis I think they floated that to gauge reaction. However I see it makes a lot of sense int he long term especially formatting stuff with CSS.