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UtterAccess Forums _ Web Development _ Website Options

Posted by: Alexander Apr 24 2017, 01:17 PM

I could do with some general advice regarding setting up a website based on an access 2010 database.

For starters I don't really know if what I want is possible but I would be surprised if Access cannot handle it.

A simple case .... we have 10 races per year .... we have 5 clubs that form 1 Federation

I was looking to see if each Club could upload their Club results and the website then combined into a Federation result and sorted into race position order.

I will expand more if required but just asking the first few questions to see if this is a possibility?

Many thanks for looking.

Posted by: GroverParkGeorge Apr 24 2017, 01:26 PM

Possible, yes. Highly desirable, probably not.

More websites of the size you probably want these days have either MySQL or MS SQL behind them, I think. Large sites, of course, may have a NoSQL database behind them.

In any event, you'll need to learn to code with a web-based coding tool, such as PHP, or .ASP. hm, just in case you are thinking about Access providing the interface. No, that's not possible.

I am pretty sure a search here will turn up a number of samples and discussions of relevance.

Posted by: Alexander Apr 24 2017, 06:15 PM

Many thanks George ... I was thinking Access could be the database for storing and sorting the data with a web interface.

Sounds as if that is a non-starter.

Will search around as suggested.

Thanks

Posted by: GroverParkGeorge Apr 24 2017, 06:16 PM

Don't get me wrong. You CAN do it, but the logistics are such that very few people do so any more.

Posted by: DanielPineault Apr 24 2017, 06:42 PM

Access and the web are not a good idea!

I'd look into PHP, .Net with a MySQL database. Obviously this also will involve HTML, CSS, JavaScript/jQuery ... This can be a very serious learning curve so I'd perhaps see if there doesn't already exist a solution (free or purchased) that you could utilize and customize to suit your needs.

Posted by: theDBguy Apr 24 2017, 07:28 PM

Please correct me if I am wrong but I think PHP or .Net can also use MS Access as a data store except MySQL or SQL Server would be more secured. Right?

Posted by: DanielPineault Apr 24 2017, 07:44 PM

Security is one aspect.
There's also performance and also the maximum number of concurrent connections limitation.
There's also the fact that Access remain a file base database compared to the alternatives.

At the end of the day, Access wasn't designed for this type of application. Use the right tool for the job.

Posted by: theDBguy Apr 24 2017, 09:29 PM

Thanks Daniel, I was thinking the same thing but just wanted to confirm. For Alexander's purpose, it might still be an option based on infrequent use and no concurrent user requirements (10 races per year?). Just throwing it out there as an option...

Posted by: GroverParkGeorge Apr 24 2017, 09:39 PM

To me, the main hassle is managing the accdb file. If you can't connect to it locally, then you have to upload a new version whenever something changes. I used to do that but it got to be such a hassle I decided even for a very small db, SQL Server was more practical.

Posted by: theDBguy Apr 24 2017, 10:01 PM

Hi George. Of course. If Alexander has a choice, he might as well skip Access. I just wanted to mention it if only to let me know it's also available. Cheers.

Posted by: HiTechCoach Apr 24 2017, 10:27 PM

@theDBGuy,

QUOTE
Please correct me if I am wrong but I think PHP or .Net can also use MS Access as a data store except MySQL or SQL Server would be more secured. Right?


You are correct that PHP, .NET, ASP, etc can use a Access database as the back end when hosted on IIS (Windows platform) with the appropriate JET or ACE drivers installed.

I have not found mySQL, MS SQL Server, etc any more secure than Access as the back end. With Access you can use the a DSN to hide the Access database location outside of the website folders. The security risk most websites have is from poor coding that allow SQL injections to be used. I see this a lot with websites using mySQL as the back end.


I have started out many ASP sites with just an Access database as the back end. When the concurrent user count is low and performance is still fine, then Access is just the right tool for the job. When the concurrent user count gets high enough or the data size get over 2 gig , or perform is lacking, then it is time to upsize to a SQL Server back end. [Sound familiar?] In my experience, it really is no different than with Access on the desktop and what to use as the back end.


FWIW: I have ASP code that allows me to manage an Access database on a website similar to phpMyAdmin.

Posted by: HiTechCoach Apr 24 2017, 11:03 PM

Alexander,

QUOTE
I could do with some general advice regarding setting up a website based on an access 2010 database.


Yes it is possible to use an Access database (.accdb) as the back end for the tables to be used for a web site. This will require you to build a web front end hosted on a Windows server running IIS with the ACE database drives installed.


You might be able to use the free version of this tool: https://codeontime.com/


Alternative: Access Desktop Application

You could use a hosted SQL Server database that you can connect to from an Access front end running on your desktop.

You would supply each user with an Access front end to use for entering data. For users without Access there is the free Access Runtime version. This would allow you to use all the power of Access to develop the front end.

There are also other options I have used that allow Access to be used as the front end over the internet.

Posted by: zocker Apr 25 2017, 02:32 AM

Alexander, my tutorial will probably help you: http://www.UtterAccess.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=1986367

All the best!

Zocker

Posted by: Alexander Apr 25 2017, 07:04 AM

Many thanks Zocker and I have read through the tutorial and the information sheet and I think I can do something here as I have set up PHP auction sites before and they worked !!!

You have given me food for thought and I will keep you posted on my progress.

Posted by: Alexander Apr 25 2017, 07:08 AM

Many thanks Boyd...

Please I created a bit of interest and I will check out your comments and links and report back. I believe this should be possible and will study and ask some additional questions.

I have looked in the past at the Access option on my desktop but have never quite managed to master it.

Thanks for your comprehensive answers and comments.

Posted by: Alexander Apr 25 2017, 07:09 AM

Thanks Daniel ...

Some interesting discussion and help for me and plenty to work on.

Posted by: Alexander Apr 25 2017, 07:11 AM

Thanks DBGuy...

I am obviously more comfortable with Access but have some small experience with PHP.

Checking all the options and Zocker kindly pointed me to a very detailed document on the method.

Posted by: HiTechCoach Apr 25 2017, 09:21 PM

Alexander,

Here are some more posts here at UtterAccess you might want to check out.

http://www.UtterAccess.com/forum/Making-Database-Web-Base-t620122.html

http://www.UtterAccess.com/forum/Free-ASP-Form-Generator-t1211759.html

Note: VBA and ASP are very similar.

Posted by: Alexander Apr 26 2017, 02:38 AM

Many thanks Boyd

Will check these out as my project is starting to take some shape.

Posted by: jleach Apr 26 2017, 04:22 AM

Classic ASP over an Access database is/was a very common scenario. We took over one project that had a near-2gb Access BE running under an ASP intranet with 300 users or so taking calls all day. I was amazed at how fast this system ran. It's really only one "user" requesting access to the db, because each end user is routed through the ASP process. Works quite well, if a little outdated maybe these days (we converted it to SQL Server for auditing and disaster recovery scenario improvements).

I'm wary of PHP: IM(NS)HO, using this language as a beginner is like is pointing a shotgun at your foot and pulling the trigger and hoping the shells are wet. Only, you don't know you're holding a shotgun. PHP is downright full of security traps and other issues, it's like the whole language is working against you to see you fail, even though it seems easy to get a start with (there's a famous article called Fractals of Bad Design if you want to read one of best rants ever written about the subject).

If you have the time to invest in learning, .NET and MVC is a nice solid framework. There's also ASP.NET WebForms, which attempts to stay closer to the desktop/event-driven model. In many ways, MVC is much easier at it more naturally fits the flow of how HTTP works rather than trying to fit a square peg in a round hole by attempting to retain the "desktop programming familiarity" that WebForms did. Of course there's also other solutions: MEAN, for one, Ruby, etc, but all of them will require HTML/JS work on the frontend.

Posted by: Alexander Apr 26 2017, 04:27 AM

Many thanks Jack for that comprehensive summary

I suppose the next move is to actually see a simple system in action or try to design one myself.

Thanks again for the comments.

Posted by: theDBguy Apr 26 2017, 09:59 AM

Hi Jack,

Don't mean to hijack this thread but getting into the .Net+MVC world sounds interesting. Got any links you could suggest for beginners? Thanks.

Posted by: jleach Apr 27 2017, 07:47 PM

I don't really have any starter material handy (all mine came from sifting through hundreds of various resources). Maybe after things calm down a bit on my end (ha!) I'll throw together a quickstart tutorial.