UtterAccess.com
X   Site Message
(Message will auto close in 2 seconds)

Welcome to UtterAccess! Please ( Login   or   Register )

Custom Search
6 Pages V « < 4 5 6  (Go to first unread post)
   Closed TopicStart new topic
> Access Installer, Access 2013    
 
   
chrislong2
post Jan 5 2020, 10:54 PM
Post#101



Posts: 16
Joined: 1-January 20



Fair enough Frank. Here you go:

SSE Setup's Access-specific benefits:
- reduces most of your Access-related deployment concerns to you choosing your minimum required version.
- It automatically can download/install runtimes and auto chooses best runtime for user.
- It automatically detects Access and Office versions, INCLUDING differentiating between 2016/2019, CTR and Store!
- It automatically handles all trusted location stuff, including for network locations etc.
- It automatically handles allowing you to install to Program Files (just like non-Access programs are) and installs there by default just fine
- It comes with an easy to follow 10-step Start-To-Finish Access Deployment Guide on creating your Access install with SSE Setup, that even offers guidance on split databases and the like
- Literally gives you a fully working install as soon as you start your project
- Literally allows you to create a fully done Access-deployment install in 10 minutes.

Every other installer I'm aware of (except partially SageKey):
- Does none of the above. You have to manually code (or find code snippets for) for what you want to do. And then you're assuming there aren't mistakes in that stuff. I can tell everyone here with 100% straight-face that every detection script I've ever seen and every trusted location solution I've ever seen has been incomplete. For detection scripts they either don't correctly identify or differentiate CTR vs MSI vs Store or 2016/2019. For trusted locations, the registry solution given is typically only partial. Which doesn't mean I think SSE Setup is necessarily 100% in detections and stuff either (I've already stated this but compared to code I've seen people recommending for use in installers like Inno, NSIS, other scripting-based, it's definitely more complete.)

Downsides to SSE Setup for Access developers (see, I'm fair...):

- Doesn't have Sagekey's go-between thing to negate reconfiguration messages between different installed Access/runtime versions. SSE Setup mitigates by trying to match required runtime with an already installed Office version to minimize reconfig messages as much as possible. But there still may be some reconfig messages for some users when starting your app.
- Because of the auto-runtime matching as the mitigation for the reconfig problem, SSE Setup wants you to allow it to have your install to download/install the runtime that's best for the user. You can optionally just force it to install a runtime you include but if you do that, you lose the mitigation for the reconfig issue and you'll just have to accept that users that may have a different Access version/runtime already installed other than what you're requiring/installing might see a reconfiguration message for a moment when starting your db. You can only include 1 runtime (technically 2 if you count different 32/64 versions) for use with SSE Setup.
- While you can require say 2016 or 2019, you cannot specify specific builds or easily require specific Access updates be installed (other than service packs for the earlier versions which are selectable).
- If you have both a 32-bit db and a 64-bit db version you will need to create 2 different installers (1 for 32-bit and 1 for 64-bit). SSE Setup mitigates this by making it ultra-easy with its project manager to do this. But ultimately you will still lhave 2 installers in this situation.
- Because SSE Setup is not a scriptable installer, you are limited to what I've done with the Access stuff. You can't extend it or change it.

There might be more but those are the ones that are jumping out at me at the moment. I've kept the focus on all the above on the Access-specific stuff. Obviously other installers will have various other differences as compared to SSE Setup.

As for video, that was not produced by me, but the fact that it does have 30k views does show a video interest in this stuff on Youtube. I'm not currently set up to create tutorial videos, but maybe some day I'll do that. But the best thing for someone to do if they want to see how it works is just install the thing and start a new project and select your Access db when starting your project. You'll find you already have a fully working multilingual install/uninstall at start, and I think within a few minutes of looking at it and reading through the 10-step Access Deployment guide, you'll have it figured out better than any video could ever do for you and possibly even in less time than even watching a video would take you!

Now my question for everyone here (including mods and admins) is WHY in the world CAN'T there be a thread in the Packaging & Deployment forum specifically for SSE Setup that has info like the above posted and where people could ask questions specific to SSE Setup? Where SSE Setup info can be posted in one place. And if someone wants to make a thread for SageKey and another wants to make one for NSIS or Installer XYZ who cares? Why not even make them all sticky threads at the top and let the users look at the info and decide what they might want to try or what might fit best for them. Who cares about whether it's "promoting" a commercial product or not? Maybe some users might WANT to use a commercial solution as opposed to having to do it themselves in Inno Setup or whatever. Why can't they just have the info and make up their own minds? That's my opinion anyway...hopefully expressed without drawing too much ire...
Go to the top of the page
 
chrislong2
post Jan 6 2020, 12:55 AM
Post#102



Posts: 16
Joined: 1-January 20



I should be clear that I'm not in any way advocating that that specific SSE Setup thread be re-opened. It probably was not the best way to start out an SSE Setup specific thread (as well intentioned as it was). For my part it probably would have looked much better if I had made my post in it be more like the above. My greater point though I was trying to say in my last paragraph above is that as it stands now, this pertinent info about SSE Setup and both its benefits and downsides for Access developers is on page 6 of just another generic "what installer should I use thread" for which there are loads such threads on this forum. I didn't start that thread in question nor ask for its creation, but I was perfectly ok that it was as it made sense to me for there to be one so info specifically on SSE Setup could be given or discussed and that could maybe easily be referred to in the future by anyone wanting to refer to SSE Setup.
Go to the top of the page
 
isladogs
post Jan 6 2020, 06:43 AM
Post#103


UtterAccess VIP
Posts: 2,098
Joined: 4-June 18
From: Somerset, UK


Chris

Once again I'll say that I agree that SSE Setup is a very good product but your lengthy post is still in my view over promoting your product.
Again in the interests of some balance I'm going to counter some of the points you are making

As I use SamLogic Visual Installer (VI for short), my comments below relate to that (and I am not affiliated with it in any way)
Although it doesn't have a free version for personal use, it does have an evaluation version to test out its large list of features.
I hope my reply doesn't come across as advertising for them but I also see that as a risk.
If the mods choose to take down my reply I will understand why

I've covered most of your points below

QUOTE
SSE Setup's Access-specific benefits:
- reduces most of your Access-related deployment concerns to you choosing your minimum required version.
- It automatically can download/install runtimes and auto chooses best runtime for user.
- It automatically detects Access and Office versions, INCLUDING differentiating between 2016/2019, CTR and Store!
- It automatically handles all trusted location stuff, including for network locations etc.
- Literally gives you a fully working install as soon as you start your project
- Literally allows you to create a fully done Access-deployment install in 10 minutes.

Every other installer I'm aware of (except partially SageKey):
- Does none of the above. You have to manually code (or find code snippets for) for what you want to do. And then you're assuming there aren't mistakes in that stuff.


Wrong. VI does all of that.
Also, the guidance supplied with the application makes it easy to add any script if required
I usually allow users to download their own runtime where needed. I choose to do that mainly to reduce download size for internet distribution

QUOTE
- It automatically handles allowing you to install to Program Files (just like non-Access programs are) and installs there by default just fine

AFAIK, VI doesn't (or didn't in the 2017 version I still use) do that but I think its a bad idea anyway.
You've not explained how you do that.
I can only assume you've either made permissions less restrictive in the selected folder or setup the installed app to run as an administrator
If either of those are your approach, I am opposed to doing that anyway.

QUOTE
Downsides to SSE Setup for Access developers (see, I'm fair...):
- Doesn't have Sagekey's go-between thing to negate reconfiguration messages between different installed Access/runtime versions. SSE Setup mitigates by trying to match required runtime with an already installed Office version to minimize reconfig messages as much as possible. But there still may be some reconfig messages for some users when starting your app.
- Because of the auto-runtime matching as the mitigation for the reconfig problem, SSE Setup wants you to allow it to have your install to download/install the runtime that's best for the user. You can optionally just force it to install a runtime you include but if you do that, you lose the mitigation for the reconfig issue and you'll just have to accept that users that may have a different Access version/runtime already installed other than what you're requiring/installing might see a reconfiguration message for a moment when starting your db. You can only include 1 runtime (technically 2 if you count different 32/64 versions) for use with SSE Setup.
- While you can require say 2016 or 2019, you cannot specify specific builds or easily require specific Access updates be installed (other than service packs for the earlier versions which are selectable).


I don't see any of these points being a real issue. So nor do I see them as a downside of your product

QUOTE
- If you have both a 32-bit db and a 64-bit db version you will need to create 2 different installers (1 for 32-bit and 1 for 64-bit). SSE Setup mitigates this by making it ultra-easy with its project manager to do this. But ultimately you will still lhave 2 installers in this situation.
- Because SSE Setup is not a scriptable installer, you are limited to what I've done with the Access stuff. You can't extend it or change it..


I distribute apps which include both 32-bit & 64-bit ACCDEs in one EXE package. The installer detects which bitness of Access is installed and selects the appropriate version to use and ignores the other version
The Standard version of VI also has no scripting and may be sufficient for some users.
However the Professional version of VI includes an extensive scripting language and I use it all the time to modify the installation for my specific needs.
I have designed my installations so the script can largely be reused in other applications with minimal changes.

I could go on but I'm trying for balance rather than trying to cover all features.
I do feel this thread has become an advert for SSE and I think that is regrettable.
In my view that is a shame because in my opinion you do have a very good product.
I think you should have let it speak for itself and stopped after your first post (or two)

I do remember another developer posting a link at UA to high quality free Access add-in code at GitHub.
The thread was taken down though the addin was totally free. Was that the right decision? Who knows?
At another Access forum where I'm a moderator we decided it was acceptable and left it in place.

For info, I also sell a number of apps that cover gaps in the market.
One of my commercial apps is called JSON Analyse and Transform for Access (JATFA) and AFAIK no other Access apps can do what it does.
However, when I provided a link (and nothing else) to the free evaluation version of that when answering a JSON & Access question at StackOverflow, my post was deleted
A few months later, answering another JSON related Access question at SO, I again provided the link. My SO account was then blocked.

I'm going to get off my soapbox (or hobby horse) now!

--------------------
Colin (Mendip Data Systems)
Website, email
Go to the top of the page
 
Mickjav
post Jan 6 2020, 07:23 AM
Post#104



Posts: 87
Joined: 25-November 18




I think I would be going with SamLogic as soon as I get other issues sorted

thanks for the detailed deciptions on both I haven't been able to read the complet essays but when I get closer I will

thanks mick

--------------------
All open code examples and free projects are only available from: Database Dreams
Go to the top of the page
 
isladogs
post Jan 6 2020, 08:18 AM
Post#105


UtterAccess VIP
Posts: 2,098
Joined: 4-June 18
From: Somerset, UK


Mick
Whilst I strongly recommend the use of professional installers, I also suggest you try out several of the available products first.
You can then determine which best suits your own needs before spending any money.


--------------------
Colin (Mendip Data Systems)
Website, email
Go to the top of the page
 
FrankRuperto
post Jan 6 2020, 12:49 PM
Post#106



Posts: 523
Joined: 21-September 14
From: (MilitaryBrat) Tampa Bay, Florida, USA


Can a compromise be reached for illustrating features & pros/cons of all installers? Perhaps providing links to each product so we can evaluate them and provide feedback here in UA?

--------------------
Currently supporting pawnbrokers that use my store management system developed with Access 2010 on Windows7. Experienced with Informix and Oracle DB's.
Go to the top of the page
 
jleach
post Jan 6 2020, 12:54 PM
Post#107


UtterAccess Administrator
Posts: 10,393
Joined: 7-December 09
From: St. Augustine, FL


>> Can a compromise be reached for illustrating features & pros/cons of all installers? Perhaps providing links to each product so we can evaluate them and provide feedback here in UA? <<

We're discussing the possibility of setting up an dedicated area to do so. Furthermore, I would think that if someone were to create a new post detailing the available options and some comparison points between them, it would likely stand (as opposed to narrowing in on how great a single one is).

--------------------
Jack D. Leach
Founder & CEO
Dymeng Services Inc.
Business Software Solutions
Go to the top of the page
 
jleach
post Jan 7 2020, 10:30 AM
Post#108


UtterAccess Administrator
Posts: 10,393
Joined: 7-December 09
From: St. Augustine, FL


Hi all, I think we're done here. I've removed the last handful of posts that didn't seem to contribute to the original topic of the thread much or offer much in terms of other useful knowledge for future readers, and have locked the thread.

Thanks

--------------------
Jack D. Leach
Founder & CEO
Dymeng Services Inc.
Business Software Solutions
Go to the top of the page
 
6 Pages V « < 4 5 6


Custom Search


RSSSearch   Top   Lo-Fi    24th January 2020 - 02:22 PM