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jleach
post Jan 18 2020, 11:57 AM
Post#21


UtterAccess Administrator
Posts: 10,454
Joined: 7-December 09
From: St. Augustine, FL


>> UA owns the site, not Microsoft, right? <<

Correct, and we don't think that Microsoft needs any specific mention anymore.

Determining how UA can "make use of" material is subjective. It's very difficult to spell out a list of possible use cases, as there's a number of them.

The verbage most often used in similar scenarios is:

QUOTE
license to use, distribute, display, reproduce, perform, modify, adapt, publish, translate and create derivative works from the Content


Let's hash out some use cases for the content (let's assume display here within UA, email distribution of content: new post subscriptions and such, which can fall under distribute, reproduce), allowing members to quote (adapt), make visible on the site (publish), creating a newsletter or featured content section (derivative works).

These are just some general things we've been discussing, and as you can see it's hardly black and white.

We have every intent to "be true to our members" and maintain general integrity, but trying to work out the details and agree on what means what and what gives too much power and not enough can be difficult.


Perhaps another approach may be: what, in particular, are our member's concerns about what we might do with the content posted here, that we can explicitly address those concerns? Our goal as administrators of the forum in this area is to do what we can to have our member base entrust us with the use of their contributions, and be confident that we're not mis-using material. What steps can we take to reach that goal?


(I'm heading out for the afternoon, back later this evening, so I won't be jumping in further myself in the meantime).

--------------------
Jack D. Leach
Founder & CEO
Dymeng Services Inc.
Business Software Solutions
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FrankRuperto
post Jan 18 2020, 05:15 PM
Post#22



Posts: 658
Joined: 21-September 14
From: (MilitaryBrat) Tampa Bay, Florida, USA


Agreed, I hope more UA members chime into this topic to provide feedback and contribute their ideas. I was examining StackOverflow's Privacy Policies and it does touch on this thread's topic, as well as GDPR and other Data Subjects rights. I think in this day and age, people are more concerned about privacy and how their personal data and content is being used, and even sold. I am sure there are many European UA members who feel GDPR provides a fair amount of protection and rights such as the "right_to_be_forgotten". So I feel it would have a positive impact for existing UA members and non-members wishing to join if UA provides a more comprehensive and up_to_date privacy policy similar to SO's. This would also complement the launching of UA version 4.

https://stackoverflow.com/legal/gdpr/data-subjects

https://stackoverflow.com/legal/privacy-policy
This post has been edited by FrankRuperto: Jan 18 2020, 05:45 PM

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Currently supporting pawnbrokers that use my store management system developed with Access 2010 on Windows7. Experienced with Informix and Oracle DB's.
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jleach
post Jan 18 2020, 06:56 PM
Post#23


UtterAccess Administrator
Posts: 10,454
Joined: 7-December 09
From: St. Augustine, FL


One of the problems with SO's policy is that it's under CC-BY-SA. Meaning, technically every piece of code someone "borrows" from there is supposed to be attributed. Not a bad thing in theory, but in terms of ability to be enforced: not practical at all (the suggestion I posted doesn't require attribution for use of content in here, which is feasible for helpful code given in the forum, though leaves something to be desired for Code Archive entries and the like (which generally include their own attribution requests in the code headers, about pages, etc) - something that can likely be addressed in the future, but not an easy one to handle immediately... again, very difficult area and quite subjective, but anyway...)

Regarding personal data, UA collects very little and absolutely does not sell or give that information to anyone. As noted earlier in the thread, the IP address, your password (not stored in plaintext, only hashed), and at the time, I had forgotten, your email address, which is not given out either.

There are plans to revise this in more depth with UAv4, covering GDPR, general privacy policy, and terms/conditions. Our current focus, however, is to alleviate any immediate concerns.

--------------------
Jack D. Leach
Founder & CEO
Dymeng Services Inc.
Business Software Solutions
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FrankRuperto
post Jan 18 2020, 09:45 PM
Post#24



Posts: 658
Joined: 21-September 14
From: (MilitaryBrat) Tampa Bay, Florida, USA


Attributions and ShareAlike under Creative Commons is an adequate way of handling property rights, but like you said, difficult to enforce. Bottom line is, if you are worried about your intellectual property, trade secrets, etc. being misused, dont publish it on the internet.
This post has been edited by FrankRuperto: Jan 18 2020, 09:52 PM

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Currently supporting pawnbrokers that use my store management system developed with Access 2010 on Windows7. Experienced with Informix and Oracle DB's.
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tina t
post Jan 18 2020, 11:51 PM
Post#25



Posts: 6,370
Joined: 11-November 10
From: SoCal, USA


since you're asking for member feedback and comments, i agree with Frank's bottom line in the previous post: if you don't want something seen or used without attribution or compensation, don't post it in a public forum. period. you can always ask that attribution be included where your posted code is used, but i'd say that what happens if somebody uses your posted code w/o attribution is between you and that somebody - not UA's concern.

as for personal info, well, geez, don't provide any and there's nothing to be stolen. i never provide PII to any website unless there are money transactions involved; otherwise, nobody needs to know anything about me. each of us has to evaluate the risk v benefit of using the internet every time we go online; i worry about my bank, i worry about the few websites i buy online from. i never worry about this website. :) tina

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"the wheel never stops turning"
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jleach
post Jan 19 2020, 01:03 AM
Post#26


UtterAccess Administrator
Posts: 10,454
Joined: 7-December 09
From: St. Augustine, FL


Tina, we might be able to guess that your last name starts with a T acclaim.gif (more on this in a bit...)

While most would think it's fairly common sense that posting in a public forum makes that information... public, it's still UA's obligation to provide insight on what we do with it (the particular pain point of this thread seems to be who we might give it to), and who retains ownership of the material posted. UA also has responsibility as the custodian of provided content.

Of course the intent vs. the letter is ever an ongoing debate across all levels of legal discussion. UA's current policy is intent-heavy and letter-light, and the goal is to shift that balance in our policy. With that said, this is likely one of those situations where it'll be impossible to make everyone happy, but we can only hope that our members' trust in UA will weigh out in the gaps we're not able to fill with this review process. I should note that we're very grateful for that trust, as we've worked hard to build it and have consistently - over many years and through many people involved in UA's management - made sure to "stand by our right side" and not compromise the integrity of the community. Which is to say, thank you for that.


Back to my opening line, in quite a bit of an aside (yet still somewhat on topic), I recently purchased and have been through most of a book called Data Breaches: Crisis and Opportunity (Sherri Davidoff, Addison-Wesley; ISBN 978-0-13-450678-4... highly recommended). Few books I've read of any type have been able to unsettle my stomach, and certainly this is the first technology book that has done so. In particular, the "T" in your name reminds me of the process of renonymization: the now-attainable ability to take anonymous data, couple it with other data (which can also by anonymous), and use interim data points to "de-anonymize" data and determine who it is in context to. This book is absolutely full of enlightening, horrendous and despicable acts and typical processes that data goes through as it's obtained, organized, brokered and used. Not least of which is that the number of data breaches that actually happen is completely unknown, but of the known ones (estimated at a very small percent of the total), only a very small percentage ever get reported, or the fact that this has been going on in the medical industry since the 1950s. Yes... since the 50s (and they've only gotten better at it since...). While the core focus of the book is how to deal with a data breach when you're on the short end of that stick, the general insight to the "new oil" industry is absolutely profound, and it's my opinion that anyone who deals with data (which is anyone that's ever sat in front of a computer or held a device to their face) should read it and be so enlightened. sad.gif (Sherri Davidoff, the author, is highly knowledgeable on the topic, having worked for years in data forensics, and the book is heavy with external references to back up the information)

Anyway, back on topic...

--------------------
Jack D. Leach
Founder & CEO
Dymeng Services Inc.
Business Software Solutions
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tina t
post Jan 19 2020, 03:50 PM
Post#27



Posts: 6,370
Joined: 11-November 10
From: SoCal, USA


QUOTE
Tina, we might be able to guess that your last name starts with a T

lol! well, you could, Jack, and i won't confirm or deny that in a public forum. but i think you missed the point of my previous statement: i never provide PII to any website unless there are money transactions involved.

and thanks for the link to the book, i'll be very interested to read it, and i'll pass the link on to my IT manager. :) tina
This post has been edited by tina t: Jan 19 2020, 03:51 PM

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"the wheel never stops turning"
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